tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC September 18, 2013 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
industry in the future. >> thank you for joining us tonight. straight from colorado. straight from the site. thank you, david. >> chris hayes is up next. >> good evening, from new york, i'm chris hayes, and tonight on "all in" showdown to shutdown, house republicans are threatening a government shutdown, while also signaling they will surrender and then trying to throw each other under the bus. it is a total mess, also extremely entertaining to watch. and we'll bring you all the details. then i'll go toe to toe with a republican economist about his deranged existence on prolonging misery, then, one of the best political ads i have ever seen. but for now, we begin with john boehner throwing down the proverbial gauntlet, about de-funding the obama care and sending it along to the senate. they ignore warnings from across the political spectrum, including from a man by the name of john boehner.
>> and if we were to put obama care into the senate, we were risking shutting down the government. that is not our goal. >> in march, house speaker john boehner was making it clear shutting down the government to de-fund the president's health care law was not on his agenda. >> do you want to risk the full faith and credit of the united states government over obama care? that is a very tough argument to make. >> six months later, the speaker has reversed course. >> this week, the house will pass the c.r. that locks the sequester savings in and de-funds obama care. >> the question is, how did that conversion happen? after all, today's huge
announcement follows months of dire warnings from a who's who of the republican party elite. >> it gives the president at the bully pulpit and a gigantic stick on which to beat it. >> i hope enough of them will realize. >> i hope my colleagues in the house who believe we need to shut down the government will understand that that is not -- they hate government but they don't want it to stop functioning. >> the wall street journal editorial page writing "the kamikazes could end up ensuring the democratic rule." they are now pleading with the republicans to step back from the brink. but john boehner ignored the warnings. >> we have an opportunity in the next 68 days to actually de-fund obama care. this is our single best opportunity to de-fund it in the next 63 days.
>> we're going to repeal it, we have to do so now. >> ted cruz spent his summer planning a hostile takeover of the republican congress. >> i would urge everybody to stop reading "the new york times". >> we open with a look at the hottest ticket in conservative circles this month, the de-fund obama care summer tour. >> in july, heritage action announced a nine-stop de-fund obama town hall tour, headlined by none other than ted cruz and jim demint. >> and you're here because now is the single best time we have to de-fund obama care. >> and in august, they announced they would spend over half a million dollars supporting the effort. >> they bought ads in times square. >> did you know obama care may be hazardous to your health? >> maybe.
>> and urged republicans to contact their relationships. in response, conservative activists are lighting up social media. donations are pouring in, e-mail lists are growing, and small dollar donors are giving cash. and ted cruz has successfully staked his claim as the new leader of the right wing grass roots. >> ted cruz, those in the conservative base are asking for the fight so we're going to give them the fight. >> so while john boehner prepares to take his caucus over a cliff. the heritage foundation and senator cruz are doing quite well, thank you very much. >> three weeks ago everybody told us it was impossible, it was not going to happen. it was a pipe dream. and now the house of representatives is listening to the people. >> the house gop leadership has now realized they have been totally rolled by cruz and are livid, with one leadership aide telling a reporter and i'm quoting, that texas state senator wendy davis has more balls than ted cruz. i can say that because it is a quote. perhaps the person who summed up
the events is chief eric ericsson who tweeted holy cow, the meltdown from republicans is astounding. joining me, the ranking member of the house budget committee, what is going on down there? >> well, chris, that was a great lead-in. look, two things happened today. the first thing is that john boehner went eyeball to eyeball with the tea party folks in his caucus and john boehner blinked. now the news is official, john boehner has turned the gavel of the house over to the tea party faction. that is one thing, the second thing is, really they want to turn this thing over in senator ted cruz' lap, saying the monkey is in your lap. you watch it. it would be fun except the consequences could be really bad for the country and the american people. >> i want to make an argument for why the consequences may be good in a moment. but first, in terms of the pre-emptive blame shifting, heritage action -- john boehner
says all right, buddy, you get this. this is the ted cruz hilarious passive/aggressive statement. at this point, republicans must stand firm, hold their ground and continue to listen to the american people, as in sorry, bro, we can't get this done. to which john boehner says we trust the republicans in the senate will put up a fight worthy of the challenges that obama proposes. the fight over the continuing resolution, the budget shutdown, rather than a month when the full faith and credit is on the line. >> well, chris it would be better to get it out of the system now. but what i think will happen is they have a big battle. they will not succeed. we all know they're not going to end up getting rid of obama care. so then they're going to double down on this fight on the debt ceiling. because what happened, as you said, look, ted cruz went around the country. he got everybody worked up. all the far right folks. now it is going over in the
senate. he is not going to be able to prevail, ted cruz. so then they're going to try to take this whole fight -- >> it is only going to make that fight worse, they will lose this and double down in the next fight. >> in fact, if you look at the plan that came out of the house republican caucus today, it was plan b, plan a was let's do this on the continuing resolution. but backup plan b, okay, if we don't succeed we'll take it to the debt ceiling. as you know, it is bad enough to be playing with government shutdown, but you're playing with the economic equivalent of nuclear weapons when you're playing with the debt ceiling. >> thank you so much, joining me now, the democrat from oregon. all right, ball is in your court.
the house is going to pass a continuing resolution that de-funds obama care, you're an open-minded guy and will probably be able to go along with that. how a bill comes into law, the president signs it, we have obama care, is that how it goes down? >> no, it is fascinating how the tea party is the advocates for the big insurance companies. they turned back huge abuses for insurance companies, throwing people off policies when they got sick. not letting people onto policies because they have a pre-existing condition. we force them to play on the level playing feel, where the consumer policies make them compete. they want to throw it all out, and go back to the insurance abuses of the past, and get rid of pre convenience, -- prevention. none of it makes sense, they will remedy the huge mistakes the house is about to make. >> normally i would agree with
you. in the past, in the last year, john boehner and the tea party caucus, a deal gets cut in the senate, and then john boehner goes back, well, there is a deal cut and mitch mcconnell screwed us, and we have to go back. so my question to you is what is there stopping mitch mcconnell from filibustering de-funding obama care, as well? >> well, certainly that is the direction he will go. but if that is the case we need to make it a standing, if you will, a talking filibuster, make them go through the night and make their case. it is so really outrageous to return to the place we were. this broken system where the consumer always loses. and not let it go otherwise. and if they decide that they want to shut down the government, with this position, then that is going to be on their backs. but i'll tell you what. i just came back from the field
of doing a lot of town halls. and people are awfully glad for the insurance bill of rights that is now giving them a fair shake for health care. >> and oregon is putting out ads for the obama care exchanges, well put them up. senator murphy, who is instrumental on the draw. if you were happy about that, senator jeff murkley played a big role in that. >> thank you so much. all right, congressman, you and i do not agree on the substance here. so we'll stipulate that and say we will not solve that in the news segment. so i just want to talk strategy here, okay? you guys are going to pass a continuing resolution that strips out funding for obama care. what happens if it is dead on
arrival in the senate? what happens here? >> it depends, one of the best things that chris says and i happen to agree with him, is what it does is move to the senate which is where the battle needs to take place. we're house supporters of what rand paul and lee are trying to do on the house floor. if it was just up to the house we would have solved the obama care issue a long time ago, so the battle needs to be over. >> you're already doing the thing the house republicans are doing already. which is shift the blame to the senate, which is likely to be a failure. i see people pointing fingers because everybody knows the results of the fight. >> chris, that is not entirely true. there is an idea here that we are the house, they are the senate. you make it sound as if we can magically wave a wand here and do something in the senate that is automatically going to pass. this is how the system works,
you know that, we do that, we have to pass the most conservative bill that we can. what you saw last week was a push back from the conservatives in what we thought was not a good first step of the process. and what we'll pass is a better second step. it is not just the conservatives, but a lot of moderates in our party will vote tomorrow. that is the best first step. it is much ado about nothing. >> it is not much ado about nothing, when john boehner's spokesperson anonymously says that wendy davis has more balls than ted cruz. which i'm curious to get your comments on that. >> you know i won't comment on that one. i don't know wendy davis. >> my point here, of course, is that you know -- i think there is a realization among the leadership, which has been the realization from "the wall street journal," everybody, who
is in the republican elite. which this is a doomed strategy, which looks like if the republican party is either risking the strategy or shutting down the government wholeheartedly. what is wrong with this analysis? >> the question is, are you going to vote to shut the government down? that is not how the system works, you know how the system works. what happens is, they will pass something next week. it will take them a week to get to whatever we pass this week and they will send it back to us. and we'll either accept it or send it back to them. nobody is going to shut the government down. but the question is we get to this last back and forth. we send them something saying look we agree on everything but obama care, and they send it back, here we go, to us, here we go. who is shutting the government
down? that is not the right discussion to be having. the right discussion to be having is how can we find a middle ground? and what the senate will do that allows the government to stay open? >> that actually is the silver lining in the cloud which is moving the substantive discussion to the right, which is accomplished. congressman, thank you so much. come back again soon. >> thank you, chris. all right, coming up, what republicans would not like you to dig up, thank you very much. we'll be right back. e web so if any of your personal information is misused, we're on it. ♪ ow. [ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. [ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock we believe it can be the most valuable real estate on earth. ♪ that's why we designed the subaru forester from the back seat forward. the intelligently designed, responsibly built, completely restyled subaru forester.
no? can you make campbell's chicken noodle soup? yes! [ wisest kid ] every can has 32 feet of slurpable noodles. now that's fun. mom, you're awesome. oh yeah! ♪ bum ba bum ba bum [ gong ] [ wisest kid ] m'm! m'm! good! here is something you're unlikely to hear anyone say in this entire fight over the possible government shutdown. the deficit, the thing that everyone is worried about, the deficit is shrinking at a
record-setting jaw-dropping number. it has been shrinking at a high rate, the projected deficit in 2015 will be 2.1% of the total economy's output, or just 1/5 of what it was at the height of the recession in 2009. the spike you see at the beginning shows the recession, the decline means we are already reaching normal levels. and more than two thirds of the deficit decline is coming from revenue. as the economy improves and higher taxes on the wealthy continue. so draconian cuts by the republicans are not the reason. the progressives as well as main stream economists tried to press the point that in large part, the ballooning deficits would right themselves as the economy improved. and that is basically what happened. meanwhile, house speaker john boehner and other republicans are frozen in their mindset. the deficit has not changed, even though the numbers have.
the republicans are talking about the spending problem identical to 2009 before they managed to get the budget control act and the sequester and all the cuts they have been working for. they won't accept that they have won. they still want to cut more, new estimates show that as many as 3.8 million people will lose their food stamp benefits in 2014 under the heightened plan of eligibility. this is when we have the heightened numbers of poverty, the number of americans in poverty rose to 1.5 million last year, according to the just-released report. joining me now, former director of domestic and economic policy for john mccain's presidential
campaign in 2008. and doug, i feel like there are two ways to think about austerity and budget cuts. there is the micro-economic case, saying look, we ran up huge deficits, that was abnormal, we need to do something about it. but when you get deficits down to essentially normal levels, and you're still looking to squeeze tighter and tighter, haven't you just lessened the realm of critique? >> well, i think the economy, the deficits that happened all along, anybody that has been following it should have expected it. the numbers in the past, all the
numbers turned bad again because the one thing that has not been touched or addressed is in fact, the majority of the budget that is in the large so-called mandatory spending programs. the medicare, medicaid, farm subsidies. that has to be the focus of a budget negotiation. and i think conservatives on the whole would be quite pleased to trade a dollar of sequester cuts for a dollar of reforms. that deal has never actually been put on the table, and if it would just -- >> there have been deals put on the table at basically three or four different junctures, in which the white house has desperately wanted to do something. i think the problems should be
dealt with through changes in health care and inflation. let's say you think it is a good idea. the white house has time and time again said please, work with us here. let's cut social security and the house republican caucus particularly has run away from the deal. >> i think that is not a fair reading of the recent history. the group that has been most opposed to that has been democrats. harry reid and nancy pelosi, in particular, said any change in policy is dead on arrival. so there is no chance for that kind of deal to happen. and indeed, the president himself, ignored --
>> house speaker john boehner did not ever push them to call that bluff, right? i mean the point is -- >> how is it house speaker john boehner's job to call their own party's bluff? >> the president has offered the deal. >> and he has been just as effective in getting the deal done as he was in getting larry summers concerned and prosecuting a war on syria, he needs to actually lead his own party. hold on one second, no, because you and i here are sitting talking about projections in 2016, when we have an absolutely destroyed and broken labor market, with 45 million people in poverty. we're going through austerity that is not helping people with depressed wages. this is the conversation we
have. it drives me out of my mind. i can't for the life of me find one republican person who cares or has anything constructive to say. i'm being totally serious about that. >> i take issue in several ways. the entire conversation has been how best to make the economy grow because that is the quickest way to solve the party problems, to get the 14 million americans unemployed back to work, have the median income rise, instead of falling. the president has offered exactly the same plan every single time. unwilling to marshal the willingness to change social security, which would have no impact and open the budget room for the kinds of things that you want. so the problem lies in the white house. >> you're telling me -- >> you're telling me that chained cpi or some kind of cuts to social security benefits is going to be the thing that raises median wages, reduces poverty in the u.s. and gets gdp up and -- >> it would be a good thing in its own right. because right now the plan is to cut social security by 25%, that is the current plan, so no one is going to introduce cuts to social security. they're already on the books. the question is can you do something sensible and not cut retiree's wages, how would you do that? >> you would actually convince the plan and have the democrats go along. chained cpi is not a technical thing, have a plan like the simpson-bowles plan. and then you would have sent a
message to the united states, the syrian problems, he would have the incentive -- >> there is -- >> you would have given them some reason. >> there is essentially zero evidence that the thing that is holding back american growth at this moment is any hesitancy on the part of world capital markets that is just not -- >> how about the failure of any firms to locate in the united states when the current plan is to either let that go out of control or raise taxes to fix it? they don't want to locate here. why are the trillions not coming back to the u.s.? well, that is the place where you can actually finance the private sector. all of that has been true for years. there is no change in the administration, they have repeatedly gone back to the well. they actually invented the sequester, thinking it would be so bad it would force everybody to raise taxes. >> yes, and it was embraced by the republican party. >> they got the tax increases they have asked for. what they have never delivered is anything on their side of the aisle, on the agenda, to make the social security last the next 20 years, open the infrastructure, do the kind of research the president wants. he has the keys, put them in the ignition, drive the car. the problem is the party. >> he will put the keys in the ignition, john boehner will grab the wheel and promptly put it over the cliff. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. ♪
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coming up, what if the one country that politicians tells us to be most scared of decides it wants to talk? well, that is what is happening tonight. and we have ann curry who just sat down face to face with iran's leaders. and more stories coming up. and first i want to share awesome things on the internet today. beginning with the power of reaching a long-term goal. some want to run a marathon, but others dream of other goals. fortunately for us, the golden arches in wisconsin was able to make this dream come true. 30 minutes before the fast-food franchise ended their breakfast
service, mr. chipman placed his order, buying breakfast sandwiches, and sandwiches of the all-day variety, 43 in all a, he called it the mc-everything. the bill included a diet coke to wash it all down. a small price to pay for the sandwich, the egyptians have the pyramid, but we have nick chipman, the architectural wonder. and freaking out at the news that the federal reserve will not pay back the paper. the stimulus, and the financial crisis, the fed said no to one kind of tapper, the funny looking adorable zoo animal.
suddenly every blog reporter had a tapier, it was fleeting, dear god, one wrote, my time line is full of these jokes, what fresh help is this? they explained it. it is offered from the country of economic outlet, here is the illustration of the 2008 meltdown. the fed has been trying this out. here is bobby draper, reacting to the explanation of what the tapir is, can we go back to looking at the animals now? the third most awesome thing, they posted this amazing video, one that is purported to be taken by a small camera, strapped to the back of an eagle. the video shows the eagle flying around france, a beautiful country, sure, but gosh, the eagle is an american item, one that is a symbol of freedom and patriotism. in fact, i can't think of a more
patriotic place more than oral roberts university, where the eagle was allowed to soar in the enclosed auditorium. >> don't worry, don't worry, the eagle survived, it was his attempt at eating the mceverything that killed him. you can find more on our website, "all in" with chris. i think farmers care more about the land than probably anyone else. we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us.
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taking office, president barack obama gave a speech at the university of cairo, where he called for, a new beginning, saying he wanted to put an end to years of distrust. it was part of his mission to let the world know that george w. bush was gone, a man who was reviled by many in the middle east. that guy is gone, so let's talk. and basically a mirror version of that is happening in iran, with their new president, rowhani, who is a champion of change. for six years, iran had their own leader, who was not liked in the u.s. the disliked mahmoud ahmadinejad. but he got tossed out on his keister, and basically the new guys in the administration are doing everything they can to replace his old confrontational style with a new regime. if you think i'm exaggerating, economic this out between the house minority leader and the
daughter. happy rosh hashanah. finally, again, iran never denied it. the man who did is now gone. and they have already been in contact with rowhani about nuclear talks. >> i sent him a letter after his election indicating the u.s.'s interest in resolving this nuclear issue in a way that would allow iran to re-join the international community. but it it's going to have to show the international community that it is not trying to weaponize the nuclear power. >> in the interview, ann curry sat down with the leader face to face, and held him to his decision not to develop nuclear weapons. >> can you say that iran will not build a nuclear weapon under any circumstances whatsoever? >> he has clearly said we are
not seeking nuclear weapons. and we are not going to do so. quite obviously, we have repeatedly said that under no circumstances we are seeking any forms of mass destruction weapons. and nuclear weapon is not an excuse or an exception. >> so the answer is no. >> yes, it is quite obvious. >> i want to make sure, i understand. so that the american public, so that the world understands. if you can say categorically that iran will not seek a nuclear weapon under any circumstances whatsoever, is the answer to that yes or no, sir? >> the answer is that this country is never seeking nuclear weapon. >> the supreme leader made a very strong statement just recently on diplomatic flexibility. he said, i believe in what is already been called heroic flexibility, even a wrestler can show flexibility. what does that mean to you, mr.
president? and what does it allow you in your negotiations on the nuclear issue? >> well, the government is called to enter into the nuclear issue powerfully, have authority and complete authority. therefore, i have handed over the negotiation to the ministry of foreign affairs. >> joining me now from tehran, iran, is nbc's international correspondent, ann curry, and contributor who worked with ann on that interview. and ann, congratulations on that interview, fantastic, fantastic interview. everyone should watch it. my question is first of all, why do you think rowhani sat down with you? >> i think rowhani wanted to send a clear message ahead of next week's appearance, his first appearance at the united nations where he is going to be giving a speech on the 24th of
september. i think as you said, he is trying to send a very strong message that under his administration, there is a new iran and an iran that wants to make a deal. he did not rule out, chris, a possibility, although there is no meeting set, of a meeting with him and president obama. he clearly is extending his hand to the west and he wants to make the message very clear to the west and specifically to the white house, that if there is a chance to make a nuclear deal, that chance is now. >> how much of this is your sense of a turn because of the changes in the domestic political situation, and how much of it is pressure that is being applied because the sanctions are really having a pretty crippling effect on the iranian people? >> the sanctions are having a crippling effect. the inflation rate is about at 40%. the unemployment rate for young people is about 30%.
this is a pretty stunning impact on the economy. wealthy people are not being impacted, but the poor people are being impacted. and clearly, while the government does not make a link between nuclear talks and sanctions, it is very clear that the president wants an end to sanctions. so i think that is a big part of this. but i think also because it is the beginning of his presidency. and because he is setting himself as being a new kind of administrator, a new kind of president, he wants -- in fact, he has even used the words, chris, that he is going to set his policy. make clear what he was going to do in the first 100 days. which is very interesting because it is the kind of thing you would hear from an american president.
>> right, and hope and change you would hear from the american president, as well. >> and he is the candidate, he has used that repeatedly in this campaign since he was elected. >> hooman, i want to give you the skeptical version of this, they will say oh, this is these crafty persians, this is what they do. they send their leaders to be nice to us, and then they will back hezbollah and assad, and make nuclear weapons. how seriously should we take this change in direction? >> well, in my opinion, we take it very seriously because it is really only the hope we have. are persians crafty? sure. speaking as a persian, yes, we can be crafty, but in a good way sometimes, too. but no, i think we should take it seriously. i think it is genuine, i think the people are genuine, and i think the people that rowhani, the people he chose to be in his administration, want change. now you can be a skeptic, as president obama said himself, he would like to test this new-found negotiation deal. there is nothing wrong with testing this. i don't know what a skeptic would suggest to do otherwise, what else will we do other than
at least test it? rowhani has said, and said tonight, the time is very limited in terms of how much time they believe there is to make a deal. >> and that is probably because of the political risk he is taking. there is a very strong hard-line element here in iran. and they're not liking what they're hearing -- >> they're hard liners on both sides. and neither side, perhaps, would like to see a deal. and because of that, i think that the time is limited. i think he is right that the time is limited. i don't think he has the latitude beyond a certain number of months, perhaps, to think about it. >> but the interesting point is, the supreme leader has said, as you allowed to run in the interview, chris, that there is this idea of something called heroic flexibility. i mean, this is pretty remarkable from a leader that
says he is going to be flexible. and the supreme leader has the backing. as you well know, the supreme leader is in charge of the nuclear program here in iran. >> ultimately in charge, but it appears that both the supreme leader and dr. rowhani are completely in sync, right now. and this is really the first time in many, many years where the president and the supreme leader seem to be in sync. the good example of that is that both the doctor and the supreme leader just days ago gave speeches to the revolutionary guards, where a lot of people say, oh, the revolutionary guard, they're powerful. and both speeches were almost identical. and the fact that both sides spoke about things in the past that have not been spoken about, such as the political role that the revolutionary guards take. >> well, this is an example, msnbc news contributor, ann curry, and hooman, thank you very much for getting up.
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all this debacle called syria doesn't mean we're confused about iran. >> i'm concerned about iran because they're aggressively pursuing nuclear weapons. >> what message does it send to tehran? for we want to present a credible threat of military force in order to get them to stop the nuclear weapons. >> iran is closer to nuclear weapons, that is much more dangerous. >> the old words, bomb iran? >> all this talk about opening up channels of communication with iran over the nuclear program. the idea of bombing iran is
being snuffed out. in other words, this is looking to be the worse time since barack obama was elected. a journalist who contributes to "the daily beast." and anna marie, you spent a lot of time with that campaign. it strikes me he is increasingly isolated out there by himself. he used to be the leader of foreign policy, and now he is the outcast. >> of course, that is where he likes to be. you know, i admire john mccain, because you get what you pay for with john mccain, that is what the voters of arizona have been electing. and he has been giving them the same thing for 25 years. he has never met a war he didn't like. and you know, he has never been sort of able to shake his
beliefs on this. i mean, the world changes and mccain doesn't. i think he is sort of proudly old fashioned. in some ways that served him well, in other ways we can admire that. i saw the segment you did about the ads, and for the need to negotiate with people you don't agree with. and mccain, in the senate, is very much one of those people. but not so much when it comes to foreign policy. i don't think he will be changing his tune on this. >> i agree, i think it is genuinely felt. but what is so significant to me about this new kind of charm offensive for iran, iran represents the bid bad guy, the neocons have trained their eyes on him. what does it do to that entire movement and architecture of war-mongering, essentially, if you actually get a kind of iranian deal? >> it would destroy it. and chris, even before that, there was the famous line that real men go to tehran when bush set his sights on iraq.
and i think it would completely decimate what you appropriately called the neocon dream of bombing iran. that they have had their sights set on bombing iran, the neocons, for a long time. you've seen the election campaigns for a long time. and with the syrian proposed missile strikes against syria, you have seen more recently that any time somebody goes out to a more hawkish position, it gets reined back in. we had a credible threat against iran, and what syria does to that. and during the campaign, he came out in jerusalem and made really hawkish statements about iran. then iran had to draw back. people say that obama got bailed out by vladimir putin. but the truth is that mccain and
graham got bailed out by putin. we were about to see by adding up votes in the congress just how isolated their position in the congress has become. >> and anna marie, what strikes me as promising here, that if there is genuine desires for deals with iran, and the president is going to test that out and we get to something, that there is much more public opinion readiness for that kind of thing than there was five or seven years ago. the thing that really struck me was the turning point, the massive public opinions that embraced diplomacy that we haven't seen in a long time. >> well, in some ways we have mccain to thank for that. the iraq war, the american public has learned what politicians have not. at least what pro-war
politicians have not, which is that wars are unpredictable, deadly beyond count, and have unintended consequences. so the american public has learned something that the neocons have not. we had to learn it. it was a very expensive lesson, a lesson we're learning. we're still involved in iraq, in a way. we have contractors there. but yes, i see it as a turning point, as well. and i see it as a victory for the idea that foreign policy is once again about diplomacy, once again about talking to people and exchanging ideas, and not about the threat of force necessarily. >> and ally, i think the force is, you bring the era to a close, you open up a lot more space. >> yeah, i think that is part of what is taking obama so long to get here. and of course, there was the issue of the iranian election in 2009, which was widely believed, including by myself to be a fraudulent vote for mahmoud
ahmadinejad, for a vote. that was the 2008 race, obama won that out running on a campaign of diplomacy. >> and it is diplomacy, we're seeing it borne out, hopefully. anna marie cox, thank you for joining us. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris, thank you for joining us. there was an unexpected announcement today from the federal reserve that the fed was not going to dial back on its efforts to help the economy. the feds said today they would continue their own version of an economic stimulus for the country as best they can. news of that surprised decision led to a huge rally on wall street. you can see the before and after very clearly there. the s&p 500 hit a new record high today. the dow went through the roof today. happy days, right, if you own stocks better go catch them. they have taken off running again. and you know, they basically have run all year. stocks up by 20% overall. happy days on wall street, particularly today where they